Earley AI Podcast
In this podcast hosts Seth Earley invites a broad array of thought leaders and practitioners to talk about what's possible in artificial intelligence as well as what is practical in the space as we move toward a world where AI is embedded in all aspects of our personal and professional lives. They explore what's emerging in technology, data science, and enterprise applications for artificial intelligence and machine learning and how to get from early-stage AI projects to fully mature applications. Seth is founder & CEO of Earley Information Science and the award-winning author of "The AI Powered Enterprise."
Earley AI Podcast
AI Disruption and Job Replacement, Wealth Gap, and Economic Inequality - Kristina Francis - The Earley AI Podcast with Seth Earley and Chris Featherstone - Episode #039
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Our guest this episode is Kristina Francis, a Executive Director at JFFLabs. Jobs for the Future (JFF) is a nationwide nonprofit dedicated to reshaping U.S. education and workforce systems for inclusive economic progress.
Kristina is a experienced professional with a rich background spanning management consulting, software development, engineering, and cybersecurity. She began in database administration at the American Institutes for Research, evolving from an individual contributor to leading a 120-member development team for the Department of Defense. In 2016, a pivotal moment led to a dual career path, involving founding a consulting company, angel investing in women-owned tech ventures, and engaging in workforce opportunities. Currently serving as the Executive Director for JFFLabs at Jobs for the Future, Kristina provides a distinctive perspective on the present and future of workforce and education, emphasizing innovation, disruption, and foresight into the implications of emerging technologies.
Takeaways:
- AI has the potential to both disrupt jobs and create new job opportunities, but ensuring access to skills training will be important for workforce development.
- Personalized learning and career discovery tools that integrate assessments and map out skills pathways could help more people navigate changing job opportunities.
- Addressing systemic barriers and biases will be important to ensure all populations can benefit from new economic opportunities.
- Regions and employers can play a role in workforce development through public-private partnerships, on-the-job training programs, and investing in employees' skills.
Quote of the Show:
- " How do we get more innovators, school systems, programs, and employers to get on board and provide the support and systems needed so that everyone in our communities is able to discover and navigate through our system to achieve their highest potential? "
- Kristina Francis
Links:
- LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristinaharrisonfrancis/
- Website: https://www.jff.org/
- Email: KFrancis@JFF.org
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Thanks to our sponsors:
This is the Early AI Podcast, hosted by Seth Early and Chris Fetterstone. Join us as we delve deep into the passions, expertise, and experiences of top leaders and practitioners to talk about what's possible with artificial intelligence. The Early AI Podcast is sponsored by Early Information Science, the digital transformation journey with design and deployment of innovative technology solutions, as well as CMS Wire. Now, enjoy the show.
SPEAKER_04Welcome to the Early AI Podcast. I'm Seth Early. And I'm Chris Featherstone. And we are really excited to introduce our guest today. And we're going to talk about a lot of very topical issues around AI disruption and job replacement, workforce development, wealth gap, economic inequality. I know that's getting into some areas that people are kind of kind of radioactive, but we're going to talk about them anyway. We're going to dive in. Alternative ways to achieve success in this technology landscape that's changing so quickly. So our guest is a seasoned professional who's had two impact, two very impactful decades that cut across management consulting, software development, engineering, and cybersecurity. Beginning in the database administration work at the American Institutes for Research, she's progressed from an individual contributor to leading a team of 120 developers for the Department of Defense. In 2016, she changed her career a bit, marked by the founding of a consulting company, Angel Investing in Women-Owned Tech Ventures and diving into workforce opportunities. Currently, she's the executive director for JF Labs at Jobs for the Future, and our guest offers a unique perspective on the present and future of workforce and education, emphasizing innovation, disruption, and anticipating the implications of emerging technologies. Christina Francis, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_02Thank you so much for having me here.
SPEAKER_04Yes. So I wanted to start off with, you know, what are the things that you hear or see? What are the big misconceptions about AI and job replacement or disruption? You know, we talked about uh in our our intro call, we talked about how there's a deaf, there's a uh a mismatch between skills and jobs. Uh, but let's let's just kind of get your perspective on what do you think people are not understanding at this point? What do you think the misconceptions are about uh disruption?
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. Well, again, thanks for having me here. Um I we just had Thanksgiving and I think I talked about AI in so many different facets, and it was amazing because we had four generations at the table. My my grandmother was there, my mother, myself, and my 16-year-old daughter and 15-year-old son. Um, and so you know, when you talk about misconceptions, so one thing I do want to just uh hit on, and you kind of noted it just around the work that we do at Jobs for the Future, you know, we see AI technology as an enabler. Um a couple of things that we talk about a lot is that there are millions of people that are struggling to access quality jobs, education and training, and true pathways to economic advancement. There have been barriers in the work that uh people are doing across workforce and education around policy and practices and systems. And we see a widening gap in access and outcomes, and as you mentioned, kind of wealth-based um opportunities, and particularly uh when we look at gender, race, and other areas. And so I want to just put that out front because that's the lens that I typically look at the work we're doing. Um, and at JFF, we believe that technology is a great, one of our greatest potentials to help achieve our North Star, which is in 10 years getting 75 million Americans who face barriers into a quality job. And for us, that's not just wage or salary increase, but that's learning and development access, access to benefits, access to uh social capital, people to support them, et cetera. And so we've always had artificial intelligence on our uh it was one of our bullet points on our strategy around insights and the work that we're doing. And we'd begun research in the area around this technology in the labor market, but with the explosion, as we'll call it, of generative AI about a year ago, I guess now.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's a year ago.
SPEAKER_02It became really clear for us that we needed AI to enable our North Star and that it affects everything that we do. And within workforce and education, it affects how people discover jobs and opportunities, how people learn, how people acquire skills, how people identify the types of jobs that there are and really advancing in those jobs. And of course, like you mentioned, the work that people will do. And so we recently actually uh came out with a study, uh, did a study in partnership with Intel, uh, where we really focused on what are the implications of the job uh force. Um, I found it fascinating in looking at some other research that was done that talked about the 10 million people that are already employed and the 15 most AI exposed jobs. 71% of those individuals are women.
SPEAKER_04So about the 10 million, what was the 10 million numbers?
SPEAKER_02The 10 million people currently employed and the 15 most AI exposed jobs.
SPEAKER_03Okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Um, of those, 71% are women, 31% are people of color. And I I share that because what the lens that we look at, particularly when we're we're thinking about how AI and and other technologies are going to impact, is who, when we talk about disruption of jobs, who gets impacted. And for those 15 AI-exposed jobs, I'll just give you examples of those jobs. It's folks who are in accounting and payroll, um, bookkeeping, those who are proofreading and writers. We just saw the uh out in uh California, the writer's strike, um, those who are administrative assistants and production and sales, computer programming, web development. And so we look at that. Um, and in our report, we really talk about one of the things I thought was fascinating coming out of that report was that you know, we talk a lot about AI's impact, but one thing that we've got to really focus on is those skills that are actually uniquely human skills.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_02That's the interpersonal soft skills, some of the complex analytical, cognitive. We need to make sure those human skills are actually amplified so that there is resilience as AI impacts and grows and comes into the job market.
SPEAKER_05We actually had uh had somebody on the uh on the podcast and they made a very salient comment, I think, which was you know, this comes up a lot. What's gonna re you know, when is is my job gonna be replaced by these types of technologies and and enabl? And it was the comment was you know, your job's not gonna be replaced, but people who know how to utilize these technologies will replace your jobs. And I think that's probably the most important point that I try to stress too, you know, and I love the fact, by the way, Christina, that you know, love to support all these programs because, you know, I have sons and daughters, and my sons feel like they have a path, but my daughters are are like, well, what do we want to do, Dad? You know, what do you want to? We don't want to be classified into these specific stereotypes and things, and we want to do these things. And then, you know, one of my daughters is a person of color, and I love the fact too that we get that these different dynamics centered around, you know, what is my role as their father to educate them and teach them, knowing that I'm in the center of all this, but also the daunting task of them saying, Where do I start? And we we we talk about this a lot where listen, it's it's it's not gonna replace you. However, those that get ahead of this and get educated and take the opportunity will be the ones that will replace the jobs that are that are done today. I don't know if you have any comments on that, but absolutely.
SPEAKER_02I mean, AI becomes a tool in the toolkit, and you have to know how to use it to support and help you. And I think to me personally, and this is just my Christina hat on, you know, the one of the things I want to make sure is that we can create the conditions so that anyone can live in their genius, no matter what they want to do. And I think at some point, I will love it when we get to the point where it's things aren't genderized or based on the zip code that people live in, that it's just based on your natural skills, ambition, what you're good at and where you want to go in life and what type of economic advancement you want. You know, we talk a lot about economic advancement being tied to a career and a you know diploma potentially. And for some people, that's that's not what they want, right? And so we want to create the conditions for people to have success. And then just touching on, you know, the fear, right? We talk about AI being one of these um, you know, uh, you know, um huge events, right? These events that happen once in a lifetime, once in a generation. Um, and so when we talk about replacing jobs, I think one of the things that came out of our AI ready workforce framework and development that we did with Intel was that yes, there are going to be jobs that can be replaced. Those jobs that are more routine, physical, labor-intensive tasks, you know, moving objects, we can replace those. And maybe we should, because that's not where we want to put our human intelligence, right? And our human work. There are jobs that may be displaced, you know, those that are routine cognitive tasks that uh require basic problem solving or information gathering. Maybe we you some of those will be displaced, and we'll see more, you know, uh robots or or programs part uh participating there. Then we see where AI can complement existing jobs. And these are where there's equipment maintenance, vehicle maintenance, control precision, healthcare precision, you know, areas where there's hazardous material handling. How might AI complement to make the human that much more accurate at the job that they're doing? Then we look at the opportunity for AI to augment. And these are um augmentation of jobs where there's more complex cognitive analytical skills that are needed, public speaking or active listening. Um, I know now our team uses different AI tools to take notes even on Zoom meetings, and that allows me not to have to take meetings and I get a nice summary. That's an example of AI augmenting. And then there's where AI can elevate. And this is where we look at tasks and opportunities where human or interpersonal tasks or skills like uh building relationships, negotiating between two individuals or parties, staffing your organizational unit or guiding and motivating your team, where this is where we see AI to significantly increase the use and impact of those types of skills and helping employees and organizations integrate at new levels of complexity and sophistication and uh kindness, actually.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I love it. I love it.
SPEAKER_04You know, one of the things you had mentioned when we um were chatting, you you talk about we we spoke about the need for employers to open up their infrastructure. What did you mean by that and how can that be achieved? And then what are the benefits? So tell tell us a little bit more about that.
SPEAKER_02So so one, you know, we have a hypothesis at JFF that employers play an integral part to our workforce and education systems. Um employers are the ones who hire individuals and create those opportunities. Um, as employees, employers also uh bring on small businesses as vendors or uh subcontractors to help enable their business in the community that they support. And employers are part of the communities of which people live. So that with the backdrop. I think there are a couple of things that employers can do in terms of their infrastructure. One is creating uh and implementing best practices around talent engagement and talent development, talent hiring, talent retention practices. How can they be more of an impact employer and bringing uh opportunities to their employees? Um other ways are looking at how our employers actually utilizing technologies to identify, discover, upskill, reskill, outskill employees that they have. Um, you know, we see a discrepancy often between large businesses who have the funding to put those that infrastructure in place, and then those small, medium-sized businesses that may not have the funding to actually do so. And so one of the things that we look at is how do we support employers across the spectrum and creating that infrastructure that gives them the opportunity to better support their employees. So that's one way we look at it. I think I think the other way, and I think this is going to be a really interesting space as we move forward, is looking at those worker benefits and the um worker benefits that employees or I'm sorry, employers provide to their employees. And that can look at look uh look like employers providing uh stipends for employees who might be living paycheck to paycheck or still not in that um uh category of individuals who are able to save money or supporting child care and transportation or supporting health care. You just kind of mentioned, Seth, as we were getting ready for this call, um, you know, opportunities for healthcare uh diagnosis and um intervention ahead of time. And I think we're gonna see employers being in a special place to support employees in those wraparound supports uh as they are uh in their jobs.
SPEAKER_04So so it's really the talent development and career pathing and you know uh continued skill development um that needs to be uh expanded and leveraged. And and but for you mentioned for small, well, small and mid-sized companies are have a little bit more challenge with that. So, you know, we're what what what are some tangible steps that that people can take if they don't have a lot of funding, uh, but they want to do something uh in this in this year?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we we've recently we worked with um uh a tech company recently who wanted to provide and work with small businesses to give them immersive technologies that allow them to more quickly um onboard employees and get them up to speed. So imagine using XR or VR to bring employees on, and we're starting to see more employees, employers uh utilizing that. Um, I think the other is you know leveraging AI for back office support. And so how do you I was talking to a few people who don't have um, you know, executives assistance or people who can help with the note-taking and the uh coordination, that which is a lot of of work to get people coordinated, uh leveraging technologies like AI to support. So those are those are two examples.
SPEAKER_04Great. Um so what what is the role of of government in terms of shaping policies to uh support workers in industries that are facing you know disruption uh in you know through technology advances? What are your thoughts there?
SPEAKER_02I think again, I think um the moment that we're in right now, once in a generation opportunity, and it requires all stakeholders at the table, state, local, federal government, are key. Um I think they're key in a couple areas. One is helping to de-risk uh new models and uh new opportunities that are coming. And so, how might the government help with uh ideation, testing, experimenting, and commercializing opportunities? Uh, the other, and we've seen the government actually do more of this in the last couple of years, is creating opportunities where there are public-private partnerships at the regional level. Right. Public-private partnerships can come together to activate capital within the region that they're in, to uh pull together programs so that they're not they're not a gap in the programs and to uh defray costs in terms of uh staffing or capacity that's needed to get programs not only up and running, but sustained over time. And so I think that's been interesting. Um, I think also when we saw just with AI and how quickly I think the government moved to uh put together coalitions around AI and to really identify that yes, AI has a lot of opportunity, but there are risks, and we need to understand those risks early on and put regulation and policy in place. I think we saw the government act faster with AI than they did with the initial social media. We had lots of lessons learned from social media. And so I think the role of government here is moving quickly, putting regulations, policies in place, and then bringing the right people together, and that includes the employer market to the table early on so that we can work together, so that again, we can de-risk where we need to, create policies where we need to, but most importantly, where we can create opportunity uh and enable uh new models that we can do so with ease.
SPEAKER_05Do you ever feel like though they'll they could um I don't know if the word is is get in the way um or stifle creativity, right? Because that's the that's the other side of it, right?
SPEAKER_02It it is. And and uh having been someone who was a consultant uh working for Department of Defense and federal government, you know, there there are uh you know uh policies that are in place now that that are meant to slow down decision making on purpose, right? And I think I and I think in some cases there's a need for that. I also think in cases right now, we don't have time. Like we've got you've got to move quickly. And so I do think there's a role where government needs to know where they start and you know, commercial, um, the private sector, you know, where they end and the private sector starts. And I think being really open about that and allowing those who can do it best to do it best. Um, again, we're starting to see some of those conversations happen in ways that we've never seen before. Uh some folks may continue to be skeptical. And I think there are reasons for that. Yes, should be. There's there's new opportunities happening. Um, but I think there's a role that the government plays, and there's a role where the government should allow the private sector to step in and entrepreneurs to step in and academia to step in and move quicker uh than we have in the past.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I feel like there's I was I was speaking to uh a lobbyist who was thinking about you know coming back to private and um be just in in you know how the government could keep up with the pace of innovation that's happening now and try to write policy, which you know takes months. And and it would be really hard and difficult to put policy in place. Just, I mean, think about the policies that could be in place just in terms of the last year, like we talked about. It would have been, you know, it's insane. So now sometimes that takes years. Anyway, so it's yeah, it's it's definitely a uh, you know, I see it as a huge, huge, huge challenge for them at the same time. Like your to your point, I see them, you know, hopefully being able to step in and maybe slow down some of it, knowing that we also have you know the nefarious actions of others in other countries too, that's coming straight at us and what that could mean around how to you know block and tackle and protect, right? Because that's generally what should be doing, so or what should be going on anyway.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, I I think you're spot on there. You know, this is yeah, again, we're we're talking about AI today, but even with quantum and haptics and other emerging technologies, this is a moment of national security, you know, where we have to look at providing safety, transparency, ethical systems. Um, and that requires communication, that requires uh integration, interoperability, uh, which we don't always have across systems. And when I say systems, I mean both technical and um societal systems. And so yeah, I think we've got to move, we've got to move quickly, we've got to be smart, and we've got to have the right people at the table from the beginning, creating those standards and regulations so that we ensure that we have the safety and the models in place for public use.
SPEAKER_04Um quick question about uh can, you know, you were talking about seeing some success and at the regional level. Obviously, things have to, you know, uh get down to the local level for that's where you know the rubber meets the road, right? That's where you're interacting with folks. Can you give us some examples of of companies or regions that have uh successfully navigated some of the challenges that we're seeing posed by um anti disruption, uh, particularly in terms of you know retraining and adapting their um their workforce? Is there something that comes to mind that you could use as an example? What are the parameters around those?
SPEAKER_02You know, there I think there are a lot of examples that we are we are seeing now. You know, one, we're seeing um companies that are upskilling. One of the things about jobs for the future, we actually have a venture fund called JFF Ventures, where we've invested in uh, I think upwards of 45 companies to date. And it was promising to see many of those companies.
SPEAKER_04What are those companies doing?
SPEAKER_02So many of those companies are providing uh upskilling, reskilling, or they may be providing wraparound uh supports for uh workers and learners. They may be providing support to employers who are wanting to upskill uh or support their employer employees. And so within that portfolio, we saw many of those companies um quickly respond to generative AI and quickly start integrating whether it was a uh a company that provided um. Tutoring for individuals. How well were they able to integrate AI into their already existing tool set to advance and support people? But on the public-private partnership components, you know, I'll give since you asked about the government, you know, there we just saw the um tech hubs uh funding that went to 31 different regions. And one region that I just think is a fascinating one is uh Tex Texahoma. Texoma, I think is what they're called. And it's a partnership between Southern Methodist University, Paul Quinn University, um many different workforce um organizations within that uh Texas area, corporations as well. And what they're putting together is this kind of K-through adulthood semiconductor training. We know now and in the future that's going to be an area of job growth and opportunity. And so this uh public-private partnership is really working to build that uh that throughput, starting young so that students understand not only the technologies and the terminology, but the the uh internships and the job opportunities, and then really having that pathway of discovery, of applying that which they've learned, of acquiring skills, maybe credentials, maybe a diploma, and then ultimately a job. And we're gonna, I believe we're gonna start seeing more of that, but that's just one uh one example.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, no, that sounds that sounds like a uh a great um uh partnership and uh K through 12. I mean, that's wonderful that you're starting uh early on uh with with uh children and getting them exposure to things that they can uh strive for or you know or look forward to. Um so when you start, uh go ahead, Chris.
SPEAKER_05I got two questions actually, Christina, that I'd love to kind of taking it back to the core of you know, kind of where we started this. Um, you know, first, where do you see you know the biggest opportunity for those that aren't in the space now? Just in terms of job, job opportunities, things to look forward to. And then then the second part, which would be an add-on to that, is what would you recommend and how they actually get started, right? Because part of this is, you know, the group that we'll listen to are, and I should have created the context before asking the question, so I apologize. Um, but the people that that listen to our podcast are generally in the know of what's going on with all of these kind of things. However, I definitely want to take this and say, you know, to my daughter Andy and my daughter Pepper, hey, I need you to listen to this, right? I need you to listen to what Christina has to say because part of this is, you know, I want you, and you know, I love the fact that Seth's daughter is actually in a technologist, you know, within um a reputable company and stuff, but what is it that you can learn from this? Because I want you to be able to have these economic growth opportunities as you go through life and not be um be plagued by, you know, not knowing, right? Because the absence of knowledge will limit your success in every way, shape, or form. So what is it that we can do? So what do you see as those jobs and then how to get started? I think is probably that the salient questions.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I I appreciate that. Um, so one, I would say to anyone listening that our um AI Ready Workforce report is out, and I would invite people to take a look at that and read through it. I think it does a great job of uh really um underscoring our framework again around jobs that may be replaced to jobs that will be elevated with AI, and so you get everything in between. Um, but I think, you know, if I were talking to, and I'll I'll do it by stakeholder, if we're talking to your daughters or anyone who's in the job seeking, job discovery phase, is that the jobs that exist today, many are not going to be here tomorrow. And the jobs that will exist tomorrow don't even have titles today, right? And so one thing is around um being open to learning, being open to learning not only new technologies, but being open to different sectors or at the intersection of sectors. We talk about climate and AI or healthcare in AI. Um, technology is an enabler. It's not only a job opportunity, right? And so how and so how do you understand that? And so I would I would uh encourage folks to understand the technologies and not just AI. I think there are many more that are going to be coming out, right? Understanding that technology, paying attention to how companies are integrating that technology, reshaping and creating jobs. Um I would stay alert and be open to learning. Um, I would participate and use technologies outside of my job as well as in the job. Um, and I think there's an opportunity for employees to go to their employers if they are interested in learning something, to say, hey, listen, I heard about this. What are we doing internally? I'd love to raise my hand and, you know, stand up and test something or support. Um, just as an anecdote, when I came out of college in the late 90s, um, you know, I had the intent of working for a year and going back to get my uh PhD in child psychology. And I happened to graduate at a time at the height of the dot com. And it was the second week that I was um on my first job where they needed a database administrator. Um, and they said, Can you help out? And I said, sure. What is a database administrator? What do I do? And the person who needed me said, I actually don't know. It's a first time we have this job. Uh, and what they did was they partnered with me, they sent me to training externally, where I actually got certified as a Microsoft certified solution developer. I learned how to build systems and I spent 20 years building software, right? I didn't had, although I have a college degree, it was the need, the demand at the time, and me saying, I'm interested, I'm curious, I'll help in helping to define something that did not exist. And so I just encourage people now, there's that opportunity. I think down the road is not being afraid to switch careers or switch jobs or switch titles and exploring. Um I encourage employers uh to link together, to uh be part of coalitions, to partner with local companies and entrepreneurs and the venture community to really uh discover what could be and start testing and piloting and then determining how these new models and technologies can further support their business, their mission, and their employees. Um, and then I would encourage um, you know, uh training providers and institutions uh to market what they're what they're providing. You know, a lot of times there are local community colleges that have amazing programs, right? But no one knows about them. And so I think it's a great opportunity for economic development and uh colleges to work together to make sure that what they're offering gets to those who are really interested in that.
SPEAKER_04You know, that's a really interesting point. And it kind of brings to mind um some work we had done with a uh a uh telecom uh company that was um uh uh assessing people's aptitudes uh for jobs and interests. And you know, there was there, you know, you know how you can take some of those uh surveys and and you know, they do you like eating ice cream or riding a bicycle, right? You know, sing seemingly inane questions or questions that that don't seem relevant, but they build a psychological profile and build a you know a profile of your learning uh approaches and work style and and all of those different sorts of things. Um I would imagine that something like that could be um expanded at scale, but it would require a lot of different um iterations to, you know, depending upon who your audience is, and then starting to use that as a way to kind of map out, well, what would you be good at, right? Of aligning that aptitude and the interest with the types of jobs. And then, you know, and then there could also be with that, you know, an assessment of uh uh skills to say, well, okay, if you're interested in that, here's the path toward uh getting the education and the knowledge that you need, and mapping that to things like, you know, the community college courses and you know online learning and so on. Uh is do you see some of that being adopted or do you see that uh in place uh these days?
SPEAKER_02I do. Um, so our JFF Ventures, I'll just use a few examples. Um, and we're starting to see more of that. But kind of what you're hitting on, Seth, is around career discovery and navigation. And there are many career discovery and navigation tools that are now integrating some of this technology that provide these personalized assessments that um then develop a personalized learning plan, for example, or pathway. Um I think I think while we're seeing uh evolution in that, there's still the opportunity to revolutionize how that comes to life in this workforce education, not only for adult learners, but also for young adults who you know who can who might be able to bypass something. So companies like Pair Inn, who's working with Colorado State, they created, I think it's called My Colorado Journey. Um they're the the back end that really provides that a kind of assessment to personalization of you know where you might uh go. Um, I think there are also one thing I didn't mention just in the the future, I think, of education and and training, we call it finance, um find finance and flourish. And I want to circle the financing portion because I think a lot of times people decide not to do something because they don't think they can afford to do it or they can't find the funding resources. And so there are companies like Pursuit, uh, which is a company in our um uh program and a few others that are actually looking at that financing portion and supporting people and identifying ways to finance the their learning pathway and again using some of the technology to help career discovery um and creating that personalized journey.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, we had done uh work for uh um uh an e-learning organization online uh uh training uh that was an architecture for personalization of the of their courses, so that I can see that uh being very practical. Uh it's hard. It's not easy to do that, but but I would see that being done in multiple segments and different audiences because those paths will be so different, right? Depending upon hard skills, soft skills, interests, aptitudes, education, you know, to date, right? What do they have and then where do they need to go? But I could see uh a huge role for machine learning and AI in you know crafting those personalized journeys. And that's exciting, you know, that's really exciting.
SPEAKER_02The other one that we look at, I think you're right, is around language and the language barrier, right? And so a lot of times um in terms of uh workforce advancement, sometimes the biggest barrier is that of language. And so we another company, Ant Hill, that um supports uh that process of career discovery, but but through the different languages um that people speak.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I I have a question about, you know, when you start looking at the wage gap, the wealth gap, the, you know, there's there's there's economic opportunities, but they're not necessarily economic opportunities for all. Um there are underrepresented populations that don't necessarily have the the pathway to uh achieving wealth. And and you know, what do you see as ways for uh you know underrepresented uh founders accessing venture capital and private equity funds and so on? I mean, I know that's part of what you did with your organization, but you know, is that something that uh you're seeing a little bit more of, or how is that kind of progressing? Because it is a it is a big barrier.
SPEAKER_02You know, there's there's the um reality of venture right now, where people of color and women are still getting less than 2% of venture capital. Uh and we know that as companies move from idea to to growth to scale, a barrier is access to capital. And so I will say that's something that we still need to work on. Um, how we get there, I think, is leveraging government funding to do more of this ideation commercialization, de-risking um models. I think uh creating more opportunity for partnership and bringing these uh companies in early on to be a partner to larger companies who may have capital flow. I think we need to increase the number of check writers that we have, um, really broadening this uh area of angel investors. You know, we've we have people that are accredited investors and they don't know it. And how what would it look like for us to activate all of the potential accredited investors and they put some capital into these companies and maybe the companies local? Um I think that would be an interesting uh model as we go forward, particularly as we're in this era of generation. The next two to five years, I think we're gonna see our our our future Amazons and Facebooks be built. We don't know the names of those companies yet, right? Maybe some of them exist, but many of them are an idea in someone's mind, and we've got to get that capital into their hands so that those companies can grow. I think the other is creating entrepreneurship as a career and a pathway. We need to start that mindset early so that students know early on that it's possible. And if you do have an idea, there are ways for you to test it out. Now, I'm not saying that entrepreneurship is for everyone because I think there's the mindset and then the lifestyle and then everything that goes along with it, but we don't want people to turn off their genius because they don't know how to navigate this idea of entrepreneurship as a pathway or a career. Um, and to that, I think we need more opportunity to um uh create, uh connect people who may have ideas or want to start companies with those who have or have a company or have sold their company and bringing them back to serve as mentors in a unique way to the people that want to bring new models and creativity into the marketplace.
SPEAKER_04That's great. And and having those resources, uh, you know, that network of resources to kind of guide and navigate. I mean, that's part of one of the pathways, right? The pathway of on which as you as you just stated. Um quick question about um how you know what are the things that are keeping you up at night as executive director of this organization? What are what are the big concerns that you have?
SPEAKER_02Oh boy, um, so access to access to capital is one big concern because I I have had so many people with amazing ideas reach out for JFF to give them funding. And you know, we're we're not in that position. And if if if I had a dollar for each time I said, I wish I could give to this group, we would we'd be so one is is capital, and that's not only capital for startups, it's capital for nonprofits as well, for small organizations that are just are trying their best that are closest to the ground and working with the populations that need it most, but just are under-resourced to do it. And so I a call to action is companies that can give and that want to support, find a company, a nonprofit, a regional uh public-private partnership to underwrite so that they can continue moving and not lose great talent, not lose momentum of ideas that are right at the cusp of testing and um creating those outcomes that we want to see. So that's one is the capital. I think the other is the continued uh hindrance of progress because of systemic barriers. And the only way to get through these are to ensure that we've got the most courageous leaders making decisions that are hard and looking at the uh not only looking at the data, but looking at the people with whom the data represents and making sure that we are uh keeping those spaces in mind as we're coming up with new policies, as we're saying, you know, coming up with the amount of money, for example, that someone might get for uh to take a credential, you know, that where we're identifying, you know, pathways, uh transportation pathways for people to go from home to work. If they are a mile away from their job, but it takes them two and a half hours to get to that job, are we not part of the problem? And so really looking at those systemic barriers and those, you know, um identifying leaders who are courageous to make the changes that we really need to make. So those barriers are finally eliminated. Um, I think the other thing that keeps me up at night is just the urgency of where we are in this time. You know, there's excitement around the technology. I think the technology is one thing, uh, but we are in a meaning crisis right now. We see our young adults, we see adults, we see people burdened with life in ways that we have not before. Our suicide rates among young adults in the of boys and men are higher than we've seen ever. Uh, and I worry that you know, if we don't get some of these services and wraparound supports to support workers and learners and families, that getting people to a quality job won't happen, right? We've got to create these support systems and take, you know, take control of the mental health and the meaning crisis that we have.
SPEAKER_04It seems that so much of this is uh dependent on you know that preparation um and that lifelong learning, but K through 12 is where so much happens. And of course, pre-K. Um, do you see the public school systems? I mean, it's been a it's a huge, huge, huge challenge, you know, and I've read a lot about uh the politics and the uh in the efforts, but uh what do you see as are are you seeing innovation in the public uh schools?
SPEAKER_02Um so I I I I was I appreciate the question. Um, and I'm gonna answer it kind of with my Christina hat on and what I'm learning at JFF. Um, you know, I was raised by my grandparents. My grandfather was a uh elementary school principal for 40 years. My grandmother was a teacher, a principal opened up Montessori schools. My mom is a special ed uh teacher. So I have that lens in addition to the work I do as I answer this question. I think our K through 12 system is broken. Um, I think we have so many. I was just in Puerto Rico on Monday and at a school uh where I heard that there is a school in San Juan um where I think it's something like 10% of the students are are reading at grade level, um, up you know, the up to third grade. If you're not reading in third grade, you start falling back. And and it's criminal, you know, it's criminal for us to have schools in the US specifically where we are failing our students at the time they entered the schools. Um and so I think we do need reform. There are some schools we're starting to see are creating innovation, they're doing more project-based learning, they're allowing kids to kind of step up early. Um, you know, we need to see more innovation. We we need to see more of it. We saw this last year more families decide to homeschool their students. Um, and I think there are a number of reasons around that. Um, that's an area that we're actually at JFF Labs looking into uh to look at some more of the innovations that are happening at the quick K-12. But I think it we are ripe to innovate, to disrupt, to make changes in that K-12 system. Not every student learns the same way. And so we need variations of learning experiences that families can choose based on who their students, students are.
SPEAKER_04And their aptitude, interests, learning styles, all those other things we talked about to map out that learning path. And uh the question is, our public is the public system um is there not is there enough room to have some of that innovation innovation happen? And I know we're seeing it in charter schools. Um I mentioned the uh the charter school that I've supported over the years. Um uh and and it it would seem to me that if there's a a template or a pattern or a set of programs that are working for public schools, that part of the objective would be to disseminate that and give people kind of a reference point to say, here's what's worked at other public schools, right? And and it's kind of incremental as opposed to, you know, revolutionary.
SPEAKER_05But I don't know if that's something you know we get into this vicious cycle though of having to cater to the slowest, you know, the slowest, you know, people or the or Or um not this, I guess slow is not the right term, but we don't know, you know, like how to innovate amongst the individual and scale at the individual level. That's you know such a huge problem. Plus, you know, the the problem is that we also don't know how to compensate well for educators, you know. So it it just is this got this vicious cycle that just bites us so hard. And um, because I see it with my my son who's on the spectrum, and what you know, we have to mainstream him because there's not good programs to to address his specific needs at the individual layer. And we try with home augmentation, right? Of course, but again, you know, it's now he's thrown into the the crowd and the madness of the crowd, and who can who will even care about taking the on the individual, right? Yeah, then you have the socioeconomics and everything else, and it's just it's just yeah, it it it'll start giving me facial ticks if I think about too much, Rich. I'm sure Christine is the same for you, but it it's um it's a ripe opportunity, right?
SPEAKER_02And I think you hit on a couple of different things. So one is teaching, you know, what is what is the teaching profession today? Um, you know, I think we put a lot on teachers in schools. They're not only to teach the curriculum, they're coaches, they're guides, they're counselors, are all of our teachers skilled to take on the jobs that we're providing them. I think there that alone is an area that we've got to address and the compensation associated with it. Um, I was talking to a couple of principals uh over the last couple of months, just really starting with the question of what process are you taking now to upskill your teachers in AI? And I had more than half of those principals that I talked to that said, I can't even think about AI. I've got to make sure that I'm keeping my school and teachers and students safe. So safety was an issue. And then that mental health was a second.
SPEAKER_03Yep.
SPEAKER_02The upskilling of AI was on the list, but not that top three in cases. And then I think the other is how kids learn. Seth, you mentioned kind of the assessments that AI can provide and personalize. And then I think there's again the project-based learning, the blended learning, how you use ed tech, you know, for those learners who have uh differing learning styles. Um, you know, my daughter uh also has um some learning abilities that we found out later on and had to get accommodations for that. Um, and and how one, how do you educate the parents to know that you can do that? And then how do you take the stigma off if someone needs additional types of support in the environments that we put them in?
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Going back to your your your sorry Seth, I didn't kind of stop over. But going back to your comment on the uh on the educator, how do you remove personal bias as well? We run into that, you know, in rural areas of the US with you know, my son who is a person of color as well, and personal bias that then starts to dictate how they're educated or not, cared for in this spin right. I have one question, Christina. What question did we miss or what did we not ask that we should have been asking or talking about?
SPEAKER_02Oof, that's a good one. Um, because I think we talked about quite a quite a bit, and I I appreciate being on an AI podcast where we can come down to the human aspects of the work. And we you guys built both of you just mentioned your families and individuals in your families. You're able to see this opportunity and challenges and and visualize people in your family that may be impacted positively or negatively by the systems that we have set up. So I think a question that I would ask, and this is probably more for the audience, is how do we how do we create an all hands-on-deck moment at this time? You know, how do we get more innovators to, you know, put their their ideas on paper and start testing? How do we get more school systems, programs, you know, um states to test and test new models or integrate new models? How do we get more employers to do the same? And then how do we get money and capital to flow in the communities, regardless of where it's coming from, to make sure we can provide the supports and systems needed so that everyone in our communities, regardless of their gender, their color, their zip code, the support that they get from their families or not, are able to navigate to discover, to navigate and uh move throughout our system so that they can achieve their highest level of potential. That's awesome.
SPEAKER_04I know we're running a little bit uh out of time here, but I I did want to ask you, what do you do for fun?
SPEAKER_02This is fun for me, Seth. Um, I um I roller skate. And so I have started roller skating post uh pandemic.
SPEAKER_04Not rollerblade.
SPEAKER_02I rollerblade too. I actually rollerbladed before the pandemic, but started roller skating because I want to roller skate like Usher. If you don't know who Usher is, you can look up videos. He is the smoothest roller skater ever. Um, and I've also picked up the saxophone. So wow.
SPEAKER_04That's that's new is music. Do you play other instruments or no?
SPEAKER_02I play I played the saxophone in fourth grade, third and fourth grade, and then had to stop. And you know, in pandemic, I went back to what did I love that I gave up and bought myself a saxophone and nice just enjoy that that sound.
SPEAKER_04That's wonderful. I I I I I missed out on uh music uh myself and uh you know I know it's never too late, but the question is how do you juggle all of those things together?
SPEAKER_05You know, it's I I still try to skateboard a lot, but I feel like I'm gonna have a hip replacement soon. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Here's one other question I have for you. If you could go back and talk to yourself when you first graduated college, what kind of advice might you give yourself or in in retrospect with this uh lens, this experience, what would you tell yourself?
SPEAKER_02You know, I I um I would tell myself not to be afraid of the unknown and to not expect ever people older than me or people who are managing me to have all the answers. Right. I think a lot of a lot of times we lean on others to help navigate. And I think we're all the time people have the opportunity to use their voice and what comes uniquely to them to help a situation, and oftentimes we silence our own thoughts and ourselves. And so I would encourage myself to be even more curious than I was. I was a very curious uh and still am an optimist. Um, but you know, kind of pushing the status quo more earlier and and working, not being afraid to work with others from the beginning.
SPEAKER_04Where can people find you, Christina?
SPEAKER_02Um, LinkedIn is my preferred social media. So Christina Francis on LinkedIn. Um, and then if anyone wants to send an email, kfrancis at jf.org, um, and happy to speak to anyone about the work that we're doing or even to challenge some of the assumptions that we have.
SPEAKER_04Wonderful, wonderful. We'll have that in the show notes as well. Well, it's been fantastic having you. I really enjoyed the conversation. Thank you so much for uh joining us today.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. Thank you both. I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for joining us on another deep dive into AI innovation. Tune in next time when we introduce another industry expert and discuss how to maximize AI in your world. The Early AI podcast is sponsored by Early Information Science and CMS Wire. To learn more, visit early.com. That is E-A-R-L-E-Y.co. Thanks for tuning in.